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What is an appropriate level of airport security?
Filed under: xn--fcs741fqka.com — mike @ January 6, 2009 edit
  • First of all, many thanks to FT....the first couple of hours yesterday morning was a great shock to all.....the FT Buzz Chat room was a great place to hang out whilst everything sunk in....thanks FT and my fellow FT'ers

    After the shock, clearly airport security will be heightened across the US and on all flights into the US.

    My question is this. What do you FT'ers consider to be an appropriate level of airport security to keep on a permanent basis ?

    To start this off, I would make the following recommendations :
    - Where it says "only ticketed passengers beyond this point" at concourse security checkpoints, let's mean it....that means a photo ID and ticket must be presented every time, without exception.
    - What does that mean for etickets ? That is a tough one, but there must be a way around this, I know plenty people in the UK travel on etickets and they do have to show boarding passes and ID to get through security, even on domestic flights.
    - The above are "visible" changes, but do we know how much security screening is done on checked bags in the US vs elsewhere ? I am not suggested putting every bag through an X-Ray machine in front of the passenger and then hand searching a significant number of them (as they do on flights to/from Israel), but how carefully do they screen bags behind the scenes ?
    -(Oh, and on a side note, I have always felt pretty safe on board flights to/from Israel, those flights are pretty "hard" targets for terrorist with all the security attached to them)

    I would acknowledge that security will be oppressive for some time when travelling by air in the US, but I would note that travellers in Europe (especially the UK, with their history of terrorist action) have got used to this, and effective security does not have to add more than a few minutes to your progress through the airport.

    Quite honestly, I NEVER feel totally safe when flying through US airports, being originally from the UK I had got used to serious airport security (you know how British police don't carry guns.....well at LHR they carry big nasty submachine guns across their chests over their bullet proof vests) and the security in US airports is, quite simply, not sufficient.

    Thx for reading this and for your considered feedback


  • I think we should have police officers manning the security check points. Here in Sacramento they have officers man the security check points at the court houses and the jail. I have arrested someone who worked at a security check point and then months later had him hassle me when I went through the check point.


  • Please let's all have an investigation and trial first, before we hang any "guilty" victims, okay? Remember, this is still America and a democracy! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


  • What I find astounding is that third world countries like Mexico can go to the trouble of insisting that you show a baggage claim ticket and then have an airport employee match the tickets up before handing you your luggage (no allowing passengers to collect them themselves in my travel experience to this country), yet not once in all my domestic travels has anyone ever even glanced at me when retrieving my luggage, let alone asking to see my baggage claim ticket!

    It is time we stopped acting so inconvenienced by everything and start respecting the security process. U.S. airports and airlines need to enact some SERIOUS security measures and then stick to them permanently...not just let them fade away as we once again grow lax. If poor nations can accomplish this there is no reason why the U.S. can not.

    I also wonder why we do not train and arm our pilots. Why is the cockpit door not locked at all times (unless someone is coming in or out of the cockpit) and why is not a reasonably sturdy door? This is not only important in the event of terrorist attacks, but also as incidents or air rage rise. Is it so out of line to think that the cockpit should be a fairly secure environment? Our pilots should be trained in the use of firearms in the event of an emergency and should be equipped with them, of course in some sort of lock box. If we beef up the cockpit doors so that they can withstand some reasonable amount of force and institute guidelines on keeping that door locked unless absolutely necessary, no one can argue that someone could commandeer the weapon. Our lives are in the hands of these pilots, don't we want them to be able to defend themselves in case of attack?

    Just my ideas......anyone else?


  • I recently flew from Mumbai to Delhi. A domestic flight.

    Upon entering the airport, the bags I intended to check were x-rayed and sealed shut, with both pull twisties and also a band around them. I was also asked if I had anything resembling a weapon in my checked bag; I usually carry a swiss army knife and so they had me put that into my checked bags.

    I was required to put cabin baggage tags on my two carry-ons (camera and laptop bag).

    Upon entering the gate area, both bags were x-rayed and the x-ray attendant stamped the tags as "checked". I went through a metal detector and was then patted down.

    At the gate itself, my bags were hand-checked by agents of Jet Airways. They stamped the tags as "checked" again as well as my boarding pass. I was then patted down again.

    Yes, all of this added a fair bit of process and time to boarding my flight, but it didn't bother me in the least.

    Now I'm thinking a lot about the swiss army knife I carry (carried?) in my laptop bag. Useful tool, but looks like it won't be there in the future, which is fine by me.


  • May I suggest that no one else add to this thread and let it fade into the distance. We should not give this kind of person serious consideration.

    Have a beer and move on to more important threads.

    Dave - London, UK


  • 1) Body cavity searches for everyone
    2) Everyone handcuffed and bound to seat in plane. Diapers provided for all.
    3) Flight attendants liberally dispense mace and/or cattle prod zaps to uppity whiney passengers.


  • To the contrary, I feel that this is an important thread.

    (I would note that we should not ignore statements like those of the poster above who suggested banning persons of Middle Eastern descent from US flights. Such bigotry and intolerance has prevented the Middle East and all who are affected by their disputes from finding peace.)

    I agree with the poster above who says that thumbprint-recognition equipment is in order. While such equipment cannot prevent future incidents, pre-registration of air travelers with law enforcement authorities (including registration of fingerprints) would help intelligence efforts against future attacks. Additionally, pre-registration and thumprint-recognition equipment would help prevent the use of false identification by airline passengers.

    I think that infrared scanning of passengers should be implemented. Plastic weapons on a passenger cannot easily be detected. This will need to change.

    And although I have violated the rule often in the past, a strict two-item carry-on rule should be implemented. This, plus limiting concourse access to only ticketed passengers, will help security staff carry out their duties with the greatest efficiency.


  • Originally posted by anandrag:
    I think that se94583 must be the stupidest person on all of FT. Wake up to the global world! There are more cultures than just the US!!! I am surprised that you are actually educated


    I love the ad hominen attack, hope it makes you feel like a man. What's wrong, nobody can have a point-of-view that doesn't agree with your vastly superior worldview?

    It is the duty of the US gov't, the US FAA, etc. to protect US citizens and property, particularly on domestic flights. If some foreign national is inconvenienced, too bad. (and NOT by anything but prudent, heightened scrutiny). I don't go to other countries and impose my idea of what's convient to me there: for example, Christians are jailed in countries such as Afghanistan merely for expresing their beliefs. Otherwise, please take a flight to China or any middle eastern state and demand preferential treatment and see how far it gets you. Better yet, get off the plane drunk in Saudi Arabia and see how far that gets you.

    It has nothing to do with culturism, racism, or bigotry, but risk-assessment.


  • DFWTripGuy: Not sure if this is feasible, but here in Texas, when you go to get your drivers license you have your thumb print scanned. It would not be too difficult to create a “passport” type “i.d.” with this scan in an embedded chip. You present this new “i.d.” that has your picture on it, and your thumb print image and your thumb is scanned at the a/p and matched with your “i.d.” A central database could be kept when issuing the new i.d.’s, just like with our passports. It would take some time to initially get everyone “registered”,.....

    I think this is a good idea that could work.

    On another note - RE:se94583 - does the stupidity level get any higher?


  • Originally posted by se94583:
    Not crazy, not PC, but realistic. Just subject them to heightened scrutiny: as any police officer will tell you, someone who is planning a crime of this magnitude will exhibit signs of nervousness and agitation: just interview and search them, AND then rebook them on another, random flight to the same destination at no added expense. (Kinda screws up the jihad if variables are inserted into the equation.)

    Same as with Pit Bulls at the dog park; not all are bad, but I keep my eye on all of them nevertheless.


    I think at least 266 people would beg to differ with any chracterization of these precautions as crazy, if they were able to.


    That is fine. What does this have to do with Arabs and not letting any of them fly anyomre though???


  • Originally posted by doc:
    Please let's all have an investigation and trial first, before we hang any "guilty" victims, okay? Remember, this is still America and a democracy! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


    Thank you!


  • Originally posted by TravelManKen:
    On another note - RE:se94583 - does the stupidity level get any higher?


    I think that se94583 must be the stupidest person on all of FT. Wake up to the global world! There are more cultures than just the US!!! I am surprised that you are actually educated


  • The very first thing that needs to be done to beef up airport security is to have real professionals doing the security checks. It is no wonder one of the hijacked planes was out of Newark. Have any of you ever flown from there and seen what they use for their security checks? These are kids, literally kids, most of whom are high school dropouts, all of whom get minimum wage and all of whom receive no training. Newark is my home airport and I have long commented how easy it would be to get something past these kids and how I have never felt safe flying out of there. Something needs to be done. The airline industry put the safety of the flying public in the hands of a bunch of yahoos just to save money. I sincerely hope the families of each and every victim sues the airlines for millions and millions if nothing more than to send a message that our lives are more important than a few dollars. If they were so concerned about money let them pay now! In Europe trained military personell handle airport security, why do we trust it to untrained kids?


  • 1. No people of middle eastern descent permitted on US domestic flights as well as those presenting ID or passports issued from middle eastern countries or countries that fail to renounce terrorism. Period. Take the bus if you don't like it. For those innocent ones, no flight until questioned by security AND resceduling on another, random flight (at airlines expense to be fair). Even the most liberal PC elements of this country can't defend their arguments against profiling now. (sadly, this is the only 100% effective cure)

    2. No carryons. Equally as harsh, but effective.

    3. Juice up the metal detectors; in some courthouses, a quarter in your pocket will set it off, same should be for our planes.

    4. Man the metal detectors by REAL police officers, rather than $5/hour immigrants with marginal English speaking abilities. I'd gladly pay an extra couple of bucks per segment for this one.

    5. Cut out the bogus 2 questions and spend the time for a real pat-down for weapons conducted by a REAl police officer.


  • Originally posted by se94583:
    [B]1. No people of middle eastern descent permitted on US domestic flights as well as those presenting ID or passports issued from middle eastern countries or countries that fail to renounce terrorism. Period. Take the bus if you don't like it. For those innocent ones, no flight until questioned by security AND resceduling on another, random flight (at airlines expense to be fair). Even the most liberal PC elements of this country can't defend their arguments against profiling now. (sadly, this is the only 100% effective cure)[B]


    I can only hope you're kidding, but I don't suspect you are. The lunacy of your suggestion speaks for itself, so I won't belabor it. Suffice it to say that I hope you also advocated the suspension of truck rentals to white males after the bombing in OKC.


  • Wow, I just read some of the MSNBC reports. It looks like at least one of the terrorist groups used razor blades placed inside their shaving kits. It's somewhat difficult to fault airport security for that. Heck, I'm sure I'm not the only person that carries razor blades in my shaving kit. This could really change road travel, maybe a solution is to only allow the disposable type razor blades.


  • Not sure if this is feasible, but here in Texas, when you go to get your drivers license you have your thumb print scanned. It would not be too difficult to create a “passport” type “i.d.” with this scan in an embedded chip. You present this new “i.d.” that has your picture on it, and your thumb print image and your thumb is scanned at the a/p and matched with your “i.d.” A central database could be kept when issuing the new i.d.’s, just like with our passports. It would take some time to initially get everyone “registered”, and I know this reeks of Orwell’s “1984”, but if you want to fly, you must give up some “freedom”. If someone feels this is too intrusive, then they may take a bus. Not a perfect solution, just a suggestion.


  • Security measures I would consider:

    * No knives, razors, scissors or other cutting materials in carry-ons or onboard(including SHARP knives in the galley).

    * Flightdeck door locked at ALL times during the flight. I would also consider having 2 doors to get into the flightdeck. That way the flightdeck couldn't be ambushed when the FA goes into the flightdeck, or the pilot comes out for whatever reason. There may be some evacuation issues to consider in this regard. It is critical to restrict access to the flightdeck during the flight.

    * No visitors to the flightdeck unless personal guests of the pilot (ie, wife/kids etc. OK).

    * Only ticketed passengers allowed past security. This will be done, and will allow security to focus only on those flying.

    * Restrictions on a/c cleaners and other ground crew. I don't know too much about this, but I don't like the idea of a cleaner loading a gun/knife on board priot to take-off.

    * Provide social security number, or foreign passport number when booking domestic flights. The airlines could cross-reference this to data provided by law-enforcement officials and passengers could be flagged before they get on the plane. I would not want data to actually be provided to airline employees, the systems could either say OK or NOT OK. If a passenger was NOT OK, they would be subject to further security measures prior to boarding the a/c.


  • It is this sort of closed-minded thinking which causes holes in the security system in the first place. Using your criteria, innocent Arab-Americans would be stopped and detained, while a group of Irish terrorist could slip right through security for a nasty repeat of yesterday's events...


  • Originally posted by ChaseTheMiles:
    YOu are crazy! Does this mean any olive-skinned person in this country is under suspicion? Also please remember terrorists come from every country, include our own.


    I hope that biggots like you are banned from this forum in the future. Maybe all Americans should be banned frfom flying in non-white countries too...
    Your comments rerally sadden me


  • I think at least 266 people would disagree with your characterization of my profiling suggestion as "bigotry" or "insane." As of now, the terrorists laugh at our PC notions, proudly displaying their UAE and Saudi passports, etc., as they have nothing to fear as long as their credit card is not declined. The innocent people will understand this; its not a pretty solution but one to ensure ALL OUR safety, considering that 100% of all recent fatal hijackings originate with a particular ethnic group.

    Post a photograph of the plane hitting the WTC and the fireball by the airport security station.

    When a profiled individual objects to being strip searched, just point to the picture. If they don't like it, give them the number for Greyhound.


  • Terrorists come in all colours shapes and sizes. I wonder if they took the Logan Airport tour :-
    Logan International Airport - Current Tours available are:
    General Airport Operations
    Airport and Aviation History
    75th Anniversary of Logan International Airport (Amelia Earhart General Aviation Terminal)
    The general tour typically includes:
    Observing operations on the airfield
    Exploring an aircraft (depending on availability)
    Learning about airport fire safety and overall security
    Viewing U.S. Customs and Immigration procedures, if age-appropriate for group
    Getting a closer look at airline reservation systems (advance scheduling is required)
    In addition, we will do our best to arrange any special requests your group may have.
    Tours are conducted Monday through Friday at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. and need to be requested at least two weeks in advance. To obtain a tour application please call Massport Public Information at (617) 561-1800 or fill out the application on the Logan Tour Request page.
    ------------------


  • Why not force everyone to buy their tickets on priceline or hotwire and fix the system so you are not told what flight you are on until the day of departure........


  • Not crazy, not PC, but realistic. Just subject them to heightened scrutiny: as any police officer will tell you, someone who is planning a crime of this magnitude will exhibit signs of nervousness and agitation: just interview and search them, AND then rebook them on another, random flight to the same destination at no added expense. (Kinda screws up the jihad if variables are inserted into the equation.)

    Same as with Pit Bulls at the dog park; not all are bad, but I keep my eye on all of them nevertheless.


    I think at least 266 people would beg to differ with any chracterization of these precautions as crazy, if they were able to.


  • Originally posted by se94583:
    1. No people of middle eastern descent permitted on US domestic flights as well as those presenting ID or passports issued from middle eastern countries or countries that fail to renounce terrorism. Period. Take the bus if you don't like it. For those innocent ones, no flight until questioned by security AND resceduling on another, random flight (at airlines expense to be fair). Even the most liberal PC elements of this country can't defend their arguments against profiling now. (sadly, this is the only 100% effective cure)



    How sad can you get? Also how stupid: if point 1 gives you 100% effective cure why have the other points?


  • I think all the knives on the planes are gone. I guess we're going to be getting a lot of finger foods. First class breakfast will be a cereal bar and an omlette in a tube....

    d


  • Originally posted by Dudemon:
    No steel knives of any sort past security – including all concourse restaurants


    What about the metal knives served on the planes?


  • Originally posted by se94583:
    1. No people of middle eastern descent permitted on US domestic flights as well as those presenting ID or passports issued from middle eastern countries or countries that fail to renounce terrorism. Period. Take the bus if you don't like it. For those innocent ones, no flight until questioned by security AND resceduling on another, random flight (at airlines expense to be fair). Even the most liberal PC elements of this country can't defend their arguments against profiling now. (sadly, this is the only 100% effective cure)


    YOu are crazy! Does this mean any olive-skinned person in this country is under suspicion? Also please remember terrorists come from every country, include our own.


  • Local TV here in Seattle has already announced the new rules for the SEA;
    No steel knives of any sort past security – including all concourse restaurants Only ticketed passengers past security No curbside baggage checks Roving security to perform random searches and metal detection







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